- I sit down with political activist Shakeel Afsar to discuss what really happened leading to his arrest after burning an Israeli flag. This article also highlights some of the more ludicrous reactions from the far-right pertaining the incident.
ZA: Today I am joined with my dear brother, Shakil Afsar. I’ve been an admirer of his work from afar, seeing him make appearances on GB News and in certain protests. So alhamdulillah for joining us, my brother. How’s it going?
SA: Shukr, Alhamdulillah. You say fan, but I’m actually your fan. So we can be each other’s fans, Alhamdulillah.
ZA: You guys were in a protest and then you burnt an Israeli flag, and then they arrested you for that. Tell us a bit more about that.
SA: Yeah, so basically there’s an Imam Raza centre, which is a masjid that belongs to the Shia brothers and sisters. We actually didn’t know what was going on when it came to our attention. They literally came and said to my dear brother Ahmed Yakub that, look, we’re being targeted by hate crimes. At the time we thought, okay, what do these lot mean?
But when we went outside the masjid, for the last six months every Thursday at 6:00 p.m. these pro-Israeli Iranians have been coming outside the masjid with copies of the Quran, throwing them on the floor, saying chants such as “we will urinate on them,” just disgusting things.
When we got there, I literally was like, are we in the United Kingdom? Because if that’s not a hate crime, what is it?
So we went on the first initial day. They left. We went on the second day and they never turned up. And then on the third day there were a few brothers who said, look, we own this Israeli flag and we’ve purchased this Israeli flag and we wish to burn it as a sign of protest.
And I at the time said to them that if you wish to burn it as a sign of protest, you’re within your legal right to do so. If they can burn the skin off the backs of our Palestinian brothers and sisters, what is you burning a flag as a sign of protest?
At which point I had – I’ll send you the footage as well – I had like 20 officers, and I’m only an 11-stone slim guy. I had about 15 officers outside my house, probably even more.
ZA: So this was a bit after the protest? They followed you home?
SA: Yeah. So no, they didn’t follow me initially. The next day they just came to my house at a stupid hour. At the time I wasn’t at home; I was away with my partner. When my brother rang me, I said to them, look, I’m happy to hand myself in but I’m not in the city at the moment.
He was like, no, you have to hand yourself in now or we’re going to do this, we’re going to search your house. I said by all means come into my house.
ZA: This is over you burning an Israeli flag, right?
SA: This is me being part of the group where an Israeli flag that was burnt at the protest. Correct, yes.
ZA: So you didn’t even burn it yourself. You were just part of that group.
SA: Well initially what happened was these guys started to burn the flag, but quite rightly the flag was fire-retardant. I kind of advised them that if you want to burn it you need to do it in a specific way.
What the press did was they didn’t focus on anybody else. They targeted myself and Ahmed Yakub. Ahmed Yakub got pulled in on a voluntary interview and I got pulled in like I was some sort of extremist. Literally they came to my house the first day with 15–16 officers, second day 15–16 officers. At which point I got so fed up I just went and handed myself in.
And when I handed myself in I did take my legal team, but the approach was like I was the one who was hate-mongering, when for the last six months this masjid in the city of Birmingham, literally a stone’s throw away from our city centre, a stone’s throw away from our police HQ which is called Steel House Lane.
These guys are not only burning flags, they’re desecrating the Quran, they’re mimicking salah prayers, they’re making obscene gestures by touching their genitals whilst they’re so-called praying.
And when I went into the station I was asked what my stance was on it, and I said I stand by everything that I did politically, to show disgust by burning the Israeli apartheid state’s flag. It shouldn’t bother anyone because it wasn’t like they were burning it outside a synagogue. They were burning it outside a masjid, which on that day had no opposition protest either.
ZA: So let me get this straight. There was a prayer space and in front of this prayer space there were people desecrating the Quran, shouting hate speech, breach of the peace. Now as they were doing that in the previous days, were the police present then?
SA: Yes, absolutely. Because initially when we arrived on the first day when we were told, there was that much police presence when we hadn’t even advertised anything. We thought let’s go have a look. But there was that much police coordination there that the police would have known this has been happening. They’re coming outside the masjid, blasting what sounds like disco songs, jumping up and down, mimicking Islamic prayer.
They’re chanting in Persian that we should urinate on the Quran, because we’ve had those translated.
Even today, literally you will see my voice is gone, because literally two hours ago at iftar time they arrived with their speakers, with their costumes dressed in Islamic wear and then masks of rats on their faces, pointing at the masjid.
And this is a small masjid. Bearing in mind this particular masjid is something that’s been set up probably two or three years ago. It’s an organisation building itself for the Shia community that it caters for.
And I just couldn’t fathom how the police are allowing this.
Even today when I said to one of the officers, I’ll send you the video, the guy is looking at the crowd and doing this gesture. I said to the officer, if that’s not a hate crime, what is it? If that was us doing that – death threat. That’s a death threat.
And even 5 Pillars have actually posted that. I just can’t understand why. Well, I can understand the double-standard hypocrisy. And you know this right-wing extremist say that there’s two-tier policing in favour of us, but it’s not. Because all we asked them to do was allow them to protest. But one: it’s a place of worship. Two: it’s a residential area where there are a lot of apartments. People shouldn’t be blasting loud music after 10:00.
If we were to do that, they would lock us up and throw away the key.
ZA: Yeah. If this sort of thing happened when Israel was committing a genocide and people were outside synagogues making signs like this saying we’d urinate on your Torah, people would be locked up and the key would have been thrown away. But unfortunately, you’re saying this has been happening for months.
SA: Months, months, months.
This is coming from the imam of the masjid, and now that we’re going through it this has been happening for the last six months.
The masjid has been visibly vandalised. The signs have been sprayed out. There was obscene writing painted on the walls where the masjid had to paint over it with white paint to cover it.
But the fact that a masjid is being targeted in inner-city areas not even half a mile away from our police HQ, and then they want to arrest us for standing next to a group of people and showing them how to burn a flag, it makes no sense. Frankly, it seems like they’re doing criminal damage.
ZA: Frankly, it seems like they’re doing criminal damage.
They seem to be damaging this prayer space based on some politics that’s happening in a different country. So if we really want to say that it’s Britain First, frankly this is not a demonstration of Britain First.
The very people who are complaining that we’ve got Palestinian flags being flown in a country in which the Union Jack should be flown—now these very people like Nigel Farage and these individuals are okay with seeing flags of the Republic of Iran or whatever flags they want to show. Now suddenly those flags are okay.
And more specifically, the Turkish individual who actually burnt the Quran, I was actually looking at this. The case went to court and I want to read what the justice at the Southern Crown Court said. Yeah, Justice Benathan is his name.
The issue went to court and people were trying to get him locked up. But he appealed it and it was overturned, and he’s free wandering the streets. I literally just saw an article today by Middle East Eye saying that he killed his wife. So it only makes sense that someone sick like that has come from a sick background, because you have to be sick in the head to be doing sick acts.
Here’s what Justice Benathan and what the Judge had to say:
So my question to Mr. Justice Benathan of Southern Crown Court is: why the double standards? Because over here you guys are doing the same thing, frankly.
And if that’s not all, I looked at another case: a protester, 19, who tried to set a Union Jack flag alight. He avoided jail.
And frankly, The Sun, you know, I don’t know who reads The Sun now.
SA: Sort of ill-minded people.
ZA: That’s a polite, dignified way of saying it.
The Sun questioned: “Is burning the Union Jack flag illegal in the UK?” And the article goes on to say no, it’s not. So you can burn the Union Jack flag. You can burn the Quran. These are vital for a liberal democracy.
But why is it when you burn the Israeli flag that they have an issue with it?
So you’re saying they turned up twice at your property with 20 strong police officers, right?
SA: Yes. Yes. Yes.
ZA: That’s our taxpayers’ money going towards 20 police officers going to someone’s house who was part and advisory to a group. I mean, obviously, if someone’s trying to light a flag on fire and it’s not being lit, you’re being prosecuted for advising somebody how to do it.
SA: Exactly. Exactly.
ZA: Not only is the flag fire-retardant, it seems that a lot of these officers – and the system – seems retardant to common sense as well.
So tell us about this, because you’re saying that you then went and they locked you up, right?
SA: So I went and voluntarily handed myself in because I didn’t want to cause my family more distress. Obviously, I live in an affluent area, alhamdulillah, and I’ve got good neighbours. I didn’t want them to get worried or stressed, even though they support a lot of my politics.
When I came back out last night, so I went in yesterday at 11:00. My interview was at 4:00. My interview took 20 minutes because I gave a prepared statement on my stance that it’s not illegal to burn a flag, etc. They kept me till 3 in the morning. For what reason? I don’t know. They kept saying we’re asking CPS. At one point they told my legal brief that the superintendent or somebody wants to remand Shakeel so he can be presented before a judge the next morning.
And I just couldn’t understand – what have I done wrong? Literally, what have I done wrong?
If I was to burn (like you said) if they came and burned Palestinian flags.
They burned the Quran, they made gestures such as “we’re going to take off your heads,” and I’m the one sitting in a cell.
I even made sure, you know, even in some of the recordings, whilst these brothers decided to do what they wanted to do and I was there, I did help them light it. I’m not denying that fact, because it was a political statement. There was no opposition.
ZA: Brother according to the justice you live in a liberal democracy. Let me remind you: you don’t need to send 20 officers to ask somebody what he was doing. Two officers are sufficient, frankly.
SA: And what’s worse, shall I tell you what’s worse, my brother Zeeshan? What’s worse is I work closely with our local inspector, Neil Kirkpatre, from Moseley Police Station. He’s a very good police officer. He always has worked with us.
It’s very well known that whenever they’ve wanted to speak to me, whenever they’ve asked me to come down, I’ve always cooperated. They could have asked the local inspector that they want to see Shakeel and he could have just called me and I would have gone down, because we’re not running anywhere. We’re not criminals. If we do something wrong, we should be held to account. But in this instance I couldn’t understand. When I was in Stretford Police Station I kept saying to them: look, what have I done wrong? Tell me what I’ve done wrong. But in the interview, quite rightly, my legal team advised me to say minimal and give a prepared statement. Even after that I was like: why are you not letting me go? Why are you holding up a cell in your custody block when I’m cooperating? I’ve handed myself in. I’ve given you my prepared statement. Either charge me for the offence and let me go home and let me have my day in court—which they didn’t do either.
They released me at 3:00 a.m. in the morning on the basis that I am on bail because they have insufficient evidence pending investigation.
What investigation?
This is the thing. It’s one rule for us and another rule for them. And that’s clearly evident by how these pro-Israeli Iranians were behaving outside the masjid today.
Let me remind you that a lot of the people have run away from Iran, and they don’t subscribe to what these individuals are doing. Because even if Iranian brothers and sisters had something they didn’t like about us, they would not desecrate the Quran. They would not make gestures by bowing down and touching their genitals in a derogatory manner whilst their sisters are standing there. No sharam, no haya. We would never even fathom doing something like that.
And what’s worse is a clear example: our chief constable Craig Guilford, who was literally pushed out of the police force. Because when what happened with Tel Aviv Maccabi occurred and we took a stance and said they shouldn’t be allowed here, they forcefully made him retire.
Once he retired, they referred him to the watchdog and they’ve ruined his life because he did his job.
ZA: And that’s what we’re seeing. We’re seeing one rule for the Britishers, one rule for the English folks, and another rule for Israelis.
Why?
That’s a very good question. Does anybody have the answer to this?
Why is it one rule for the people born and bred here – people with nationality here, people who are ethnically English – and yet one law for them and another law for Israelis, the Zionists, people who are actually putting the UK in disrepute and putting the UK in harm’s way?
I mean that’s the reality.
And look, if that Israeli, the barbaric Israeli establishment’s flag, had been burnt on a day when there was opposition, I would have had the conversation about how it could potentially have incited some sort of reaction. But the fact is that the day the flag was desecrated as a political protest, there was no opposition present; they didn’t turn up that day. According to the justice, even if there was opposition, you have the right to offend, to shock, or even to disturb.
SA: Unfortunately, from my experience, we Muslims don’t have the same freedom; everyone else has the right to offend us, disturb us, and do whatever, but when we exercise the same rights, we are labelled as Islamists, terrorists, or worse. I am a proud British Muslim. I have worked my life here; my family is here. I am proud to be part of the establishment, I pay my taxes and contribute. But if they want us to be submissive to the establishment and say, “Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full, sir,” we will not do that.
I firmly believe, after my experience with the police yesterday, that they are picking certain people within our community to silence and pressure because they know that if they can silence Shaquille Aar, at least 100 others will be silenced. If they can silence Ahmed Yakub, at least 100 more will be silenced.
You don’t need to agree with my political stances, the way I act, or the way I speak. But surely, any common-sense, law-abiding British citizen would say that anyone holding a Quran outside a masjid and throwing it on the floor repeatedly – bearing in mind that all of our lads were angry but controlled because we said, “Do not bite to them. Allah knows our intention. Allah knows what we are capable of, but do not take their bait”- is provoking our communities.
ZA: And this is exactly what they are doing: baiting our communities for a reaction. Well done to you guys for keeping the crowd in check and making sure people didn’t react, because many people of different faiths don’t understand or appreciate the love we have for our scripture and our Prophet. They try to compare it with Christianity, but the Christian view of scripture is not like ours. We believe the Quran is verbatim, the word of God. They believe their Bible is inspired, people have edited it, and they are okay with that.
They also do not understand that we love and revere the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam so much that we don’t even draw his pictures or have iconography of him. However, when it comes to Mary and Jesus, they are okay with that. They don’t mind him being depicted in certain ways, varying by culture or colour, they have a Korean Jesus, a black Jesus, a white Jesus. For us, that is unheard of. This is something they fail to understand.
Putting this into context, seeing brothers on the other side desecrate the Quran but still uphold the law shows a great deal of restraint that I don’t think the police services or the wider community truly understand and appreciate. Alhamdulillah, we have many hotheaded brothers.
SA: And today was one of those days. I have to say that the officers on the ground could see this; at the end, they actually thanked us. These guys turned up at 5:45, and many of our brothers hadn’t even done their iftar – they had just had a small snack and some water. Yet you are provoking them in this manner. Does the West Midlands at least not understand that these Muslims are fasting, have not eaten all day, and are on edge? Common sense: you haven’t eaten all day, you haven’t drunk all day, and the book that makes you fast—the book we hold so highly – is being desecrated, yet we remain calm, still chanting.
Then they have an issue when we say, “Death to the IDF.” At the police station, my solicitor, I won’t go into too much detail – was present when one of the interviewing officers asked, “Were you shouting ‘Death to the IDF’?” I didn’t respond. My solicitor asked the officer, “Can you tell me what IDF means?” She had no clue. Literally no clue. She replied, “I don’t know.”
ZA: I think she probably knows them by their real name, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF). That’s why she reacted with, “What? What do you mean defense forces? Defending what? What are they defending?”
Even regarding the fasting, they’ve seen “Fast and Furious,” but on that day, they would have seen “Fasting and Furious” as well.
SA: I will send some footage of today. I was so ashamed, even seeing the sisters in the crowd opposite us. The brothers were observing, but the sisters were pointing to their genitalia and doing other inappropriate things. I thought, hold on, if you claim to be Muslim—or even if you are not—basic human etiquette is not to behave in such a Neanderthal manner. You can oppose us, but why point towards your genitals while the guys laugh at you and the girls laugh at them?
These people are very sophisticated and organised. They come with very large sound systems and 10 to 15 security guards. Who is funding them? Who is paying them? They arrive by coach every time. It’s the same number of people. When we struggle to gather people, especially during Ramadan, they are highly organised, and they come outside the masjid and literally have a disco – a full-blown disco.
ZA: The clue is in scanning their crowd: you see other flags in line with theirs, and the only other flag is one with two blue lines—the barbaric Niles-to-Euphrates flag, representing “Greater Israel.” These individuals cannot seem to see past their own genitals, frankly. They claim to be sophisticated, but throwing a book on the floor and pointing at something is the best they can muster.
SA: Honestly, it reached a point where we had sisters among our crowd who came out from the masjid. I felt embarrassed standing next to them because of what they were doing.
ZA: Anyone holding the Israeli flag, after seeing the destruction wrought by them and the IOF forces, and thinking what they are doing is okay, is not right in the head. That’s the best conclusion we can reach – the inference to the best explanation. How can someone be expected to be civilised while holding the Israeli flag and claiming that what they are doing is correct and that we align with them? It’s disgusting, absolutely.
SA: Even Nigel Farage, at the time I debated him, asked what we would do. I said, why is it that when we stand up and speak, you assume we will pick up rocket launchers? We are invoking our democratic right to stop this. We are actually working with the local police force, asking for an injunction – not only outside masjids but also outside synagogues and Christian places of worship – where people can protest, but in a way that does not incite violence.
Alhamdulillah, it is Ramadan, and our brothers are calm; otherwise, there are brothers present who don’t mind going away for 10–15 years to protect their religion.
Today, I was grabbing people, saying, “No, brothers. Do not get into their bait.” Some brothers questioned me: “Shakia, look what they’re doing, why are you saying no?” I replied, “Please, just do not fall into their traps, because this is exactly what they want.” Even at the protest, all the police officers were facing us. I asked, “Hold on, why are you all facing us? Why not look there? Half at them, half at us?” The answer: “That’s exactly what it is.”
Especially in Birmingham, with what happened with Tel Aviv Maccabi and the fact we stopped these barbaric IDF-serving fans from coming into our city – we couldn’t stop the team, but inshallah, next time we will. That made a big impact, because they sacked our chief constable. Top government officials got involved to ruin his life. Craig Gilford, who I dealt with personally, was and is a fair police officer; he never took sides. But they literally conducted a witch hunt and won. Now every officer in Birmingham thinks that if they speak the way Craig Gilford did, they will have to go into voluntary retirement, and once retired, they may have their retirement stripped and be referred to the watchdog. Sad state of affairs, brother Zeeshan
ZA: To bring in the judge’s words, attempting to defend liberal democracy: according to what Brits and English folks hold dear, their liberal democracies are being eroded in the name of a foreign country, simply because it claims to be an ally or has a biblical connection to Christians. People are seeing past this. Many, including Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens, are realizing that attachment to Israel serves no purpose for this country. If the UK is to prosper, it must do so without Israel, because they are literally exploiting us and eroding our most cherished values.
Shakeel Afsar, Allah bless you. I know how difficult it is because sometimes we have to do this at Speaker’s Corner. Certain brothers get very hotheaded, and to control them is a challenge. The police and viewers often don’t realise that people have free will. We can tell them not to do something and try to hold them, but some brothers have minds of their own.
SA: Brothers who are strong in their deen cannot always be controlled, and I understand that. But this is exactly what they do – they bait our community because they know how close we are to our religion and scriptures. If someone were to bring a book to Birmingham City Centre and attempt to burn it, there would be anarchy. Alhamdulillah, that hasn’t happened yet, and I hope it doesn’t. I hope our brothers remain patient and steadfast, and inshallah, leave it in the hands of Allah. But we will challenge these people every step of the way.
ZA: Brother Shakeel, thank you very much for your time.
The Far- right’s response to the incident
